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Tmax98

Tv Critics Needed

34 posts in this topic

Hey Guys,

I recently just moved into a rent house, and need suggestions on a new TV.

specs im looking for:

-HD ready

-1080P

-energy efficient

Im looking for:

- 30"-40" for the bedroom

- ~50" for the living room

Thanks,

Travis

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Panasonic Plasmas. They can be acquired for a very good price, and definitely are the best value.

I wouldn't do anything besides a plasma, unless you plan on using it as a computer monitor. They are superior in my opinion when compared to DLP, LCD. or LED TVs.

Samsung Makes a really nice plasma too. My buddy Just got a 58" Samsung 7000 series plasma and it looks amazing, but for the price it should.

Whats your budget?

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Im thinking

Bedroom:

$500-750

Living room:

$1000-1500

These are just estimates, I can probably go over a little if the deal is good

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Well I know you know everything about my TV experiences but I'm going to tell you again :P

I have 2 Samsungs (20" and 33") from 3 years ago. They have worked great as TVs (only had one scare with my 20" while turning on), and have lasted through many moves. But I was generally unimpressed how they upconverted basic cable to the TV. But, these TV's didn't really mention being High Def of anything but have HDMI inputs.

My 40" Sony Bravia is saweet. Plays basic cable awesome, plays High Def awesome. Has been a good all around TV. I use it as a monitor for my music computer and it does a great job with that as well with only a VGA cable.

My parents have a 52" (I think) LG TV. It has been a great TV as well. Other than size I can't say I really prefer one to the other, comparing it to my Bravia.

When I decided on what I wanted I went down to WalMart (my uncle gets 10% discount on anything there) and looked at all the TV's I was interested in. The only plasmas were 720p, and out of all of the available TVs I liked the Sony and some other one (I think it was LG) the best. The Sony was in stock so I chose it and haven't looked back since.

I think you should narrow it down to what style TV (Plasma, LED, etc...) fits you best then go to the store and compare all the ones you can and let your eyes decide :ughdunno:

All this is irrelevant because you should get a projector :P

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I am not a tv buff, but I do favor Panasonic plasma.

As you can see in my build thread I still have a letter box rear projection crt, so I may be a little behind with the rest of the world.

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It is a bummer that Costco is currently only carrying 720p Pannies. Don't know what happened there. :ughdunno:

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The biggest thing you need to consider is, what kind of lighting control do you have? Plasmas need lower light situations as they have glass faces and are subject to glare. LCDs are not limited as such, but they do not have as refined an image as plasmas do.

Next, plasmas do require significantly more energy then LCDs. However, the cost should really be negligible, as running a TV all month will only cost a few bucks anyways.

Finally, were I in the market right now, I would only be looking at 3 brands. Pioneer, Samsung, and Panasonic.

Here is a quick tidbit about plasmas vs. LCDs:

http://www.homeaudioforum.net/topic/164-little-bro-in-law/page__view__findpost__p__4395

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For lighting control.

All i have is a lamp in the back corner of the living room.

In the Bedroom i have a ceiling fan with a light.

Thats all i got, and simple on and off switches.

It gets plenty dark in both rooms as well.

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And the whole plasma's don't work well in light is a joke. They are better than any old tube tv. Sure glare happens, but my house is ALL windows and I have no curtains. Middle of the day it is tough as the sun rips in, but otherwise it is fine.

As a reference though, even an LCD in the same situation looks washed out and is hard to see.

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And the whole plasma's don't work well in light is a joke. They are better than any old tube tv. Sure glare happens, but my house is ALL windows and I have no curtains. Middle of the day it is tough as the sun rips in, but otherwise it is fine.

As a reference though, even an LCD in the same situation looks washed out and is hard to see.

I have blinds and curtains so i can block the sun out big time.

Looks like it will be a plasma for me in the living room.

Anything i should look for input wise on the tv?

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I prefer plasma as well.

As far as inputs are concerned; I just suggest enough HDMI inputs for high def sources. On my set I figured 1 for the satellite, 1 for the PS3 and 1 for the BluRay player. You could also be so bold as to figure 2 HDMIs, 1 for TV 1 for BR, and a component in for gaming. But, component is capable of 1080i not 1080P... I know for film I noticed a difference between 1080P and 1080i on the BR player, but I am not so sure it would be really bothersome on a game. But FWIW, an HDMI switcher from monoprice may be far less expensive then paying for a TV with 3 HDMI inputs.

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went and looked at some TVs today

I really like the Samsung Plasma.

Really just focusing on the 50" Samsungs.

I found this one at Sears for $1000

PN50C550

I found this one at Conns for $1000 as well

PN50C590

Also found this one at best buy for $1800 - though a little out of the price range

PN50C7000YF

Probably going to pick up the one from Conns.

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Love the Sammy. I can't believe the series 5 TVs are so cheap now. I bought mine 3 years ago for $2700. Worth every penny.

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*haven't looked since I bought mine

At that time, the Pio Elite was always rated the highest followed by the Panny's. Samsung followed, but by a ways. I am sure today with no Pio and the advent of improvements this has changed, but don't let the name Panasonic scare you. They may not do much for other electronics in the US, but in Japan it is a completely different story. Plus what is good is good. Either I am sure are more than fine. A reputable dealer never hurts, which is why I love Costco. Free doubling of warranty ftw.

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Panasonic does make a really nice plasma. When I went looking a few years back, I spoke with a friend of mine who fixes TVs for a living. He said that the Pio Kuros were the best, of course, followed by the Panny Viera and the Sammy Series 5 or better. TBH at the time I was saving my cash for a Kuro, but I was at about $3500 out of the $5K I needed (I only buy toys with cash, I never use credit for things that are not an emergency) when the Pio Elite RPTV I had dumped the convergence module and popped a bunch of capacitors. I had a rainbow at the bottom of the screen.

So with his recommendations in mind I went and looked at the Sammy and Panny. They were sitting next to each other in the store. IMO the Samsung had much better saturation, and deeper blacks. I liked it better right away. So I asked the wife which she liked better, and she agreed the Samsung was a much better picture. The Samsung was maybe $75 more then the Panasonic, so I went with the Samsung, and the 5 year warranty.

Granted, the settings may not have been the best in the store, as the Panny was washed out which indicates maybe too high of a white level and brightness, but I thought the Samsung was a better picture. Either way, right now the 2 best TVs for under $10K are the Samsung and Panasonics since Pioneer is out of the game.

One suggestion, get yourself the Avia set up disc and filters. After a month of viewing time to warm up the TVs, do a good set-up. You will be happy you did.

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picked up the Samsung from Conns.

Along with a stand and a blueray player.

Me and mike watched Taken on it.

I must say i am very impressed pics to come in a couple of days.

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picked up the Samsung from Conns.

Along with a stand and a blueray player.

Me and mike watched Taken on it.

I must say i am very impressed pics to come in a couple of days.

:)

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i know, i know.

going to try to get some off my phone here in a lil.

Cable guy is coming today.

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Panasonic Plasmas. They can be acquired for a very good price, and definitely are the best value.

I wouldn't do anything besides a plasma, unless you plan on using it as a computer monitor. They are superior in my opinion when compared to DLP, LCD. or LED TVs.

Samsung Makes a really nice plasma too. My buddy Just got a 58" Samsung 7000 series plasma and it looks amazing, but for the price it should.

Whats your budget?

I respectably completely disagree with this. Samsung LED in my opinion cannot be beaten in clarity, power consumption, and heat. Excellent TV.

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I haven't spent any time looking at LEDs in a good set-up. But I can comment on a couple important aspects of Mark's post.

Heat is a TV killer. The vast majority of these flat screens failing is due to heat build up. The components are all jammed really tight into a narrow case and they simply cannot get rid of the heat fast enough. If the mfgs cooled the units better, we could expect to see them last beyond 5 years. According to my buddy, the TV repair guy, about 95% of the failures he sees are due specifically to heat issues, not manufacturer defects, cheap components, or poor handling/abuse by the consumer. But, don't expect to see the manufacturers try to cool the cases down. They expect the units to fail within 3-5 years, just outside most extended warranty periods, and far outside most Mfg. standard warranties.

LEDs do work on a very low current, and therefore a low temperature model when compared to LCD backlighting, which generates heat, and the phosphorescence in plasmas, which build heat. Also, keep in mind, that heat is a loss of energy, or a reduction in efficiency. So by default, LEDs are also going to be more efficient.

My understanding is that the LEDs also make for deeper blacks then LCD (although not as deep as Plasma), and LEDs still do have the major issue of refresh rates. Remember, an LED TV is really just an LCD using LED backlighting. I know that they produce 240Hz and greater units to eliminate motion blur, but I hate to be the one to break it to you, there are no sources capable of reaching these refresh rates. IIRC 120Hz is the best thing going right now. So you still gain the benefits of phosphorescence just being better for motion images. I am not trying to take away from LED TVS, as i don't really have a lot of time messing with them, and I know that in a showroom with lighting, LEDs look amazing. But just based on how the image is produced, i think simply because of signal transfer that plasma is still better in this regard. But, with regards to light weight, low heat, greater efficiency, longer life, and performance in poorly controlled lighting in rooms, LED is definitely a winner.

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I haven't spent any time looking at LEDs in a good set-up. But I can comment on a couple important aspects of Mark's post.

Heat is a TV killer. The vast majority of these flat screens failing is due to heat build up. The components are all jammed really tight into a narrow case and they simply cannot get rid of the heat fast enough. If the mfgs cooled the units better, we could expect to see them last beyond 5 years. According to my buddy, the TV repair guy, about 95% of the failures he sees are due specifically to heat issues, not manufacturer defects, cheap components, or poor handling/abuse by the consumer. But, don't expect to see the manufacturers try to cool the cases down. They expect the units to fail within 3-5 years, just outside most extended warranty periods, and far outside most Mfg. standard warranties.

LEDs do work on a very low current, and therefore a low temperature model when compared to LCD backlighting, which generates heat, and the phosphorescence in plasmas, which build heat. Also, keep in mind, that heat is a loss of energy, or a reduction in efficiency. So by default, LEDs are also going to be more efficient.

My understanding is that the LEDs also make for deeper blacks then LCD (although not as deep as Plasma), and LEDs still do have the major issue of refresh rates. Remember, an LED TV is really just an LCD using LED backlighting. I know that they produce 240Hz and greater units to eliminate motion blur, but I hate to be the one to break it to you, there are no sources capable of reaching these refresh rates. IIRC 120Hz is the best thing going right now. So you still gain the benefits of phosphorescence just being better for motion images. I am not trying to take away from LED TVS, as i don't really have a lot of time messing with them, and I know that in a showroom with lighting, LEDs look amazing. But just based on how the image is produced, i think simply because of signal transfer that plasma is still better in this regard. But, with regards to light weight, low heat, greater efficiency, longer life, and performance in poorly controlled lighting in rooms, LED is definitely a winner.

I disagree with the creating black issue. My tv creates pure black, when it's in a black screen it looks the same as if it were turned off. I'm pretty sure those black pixel's are just shut off my the Sharp technology. You really should look into LEDs. I have owned, Plasma, LCD & LED, and LED IMO is by far the best. There is no comparison in my eyes, and everyone who watches a movie on my TV will say the same thing. Hands down.

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Meh, Iam just stating facts. You can search all you want for objective comparisons and see that plasmas have greater contrast ratios and better blacks, simply due to how they function. Subjectively, perhaps your LED is set up better, perhaps it does better in the room's lighting conditions or perhaps because of the color of your walls and plasma's reflectivity, there are many reasons why it would appear to you to be better, but objectively plasmas win the black level battle, simply by design. You can't manipulate physics.

LCD vs LED vs Plasma Debate Point #1: Contrast Ratio

A contrast ratio is the ability of the TV to show the high-contrast areas on the screen. The high contrast areas are the blacks and the whites in the picture. If a TV has a good contrast ratio, it means that it shows the differences between the darker and lighter areas of the screen remarkably well. The acid test of a TV's contrast ratio is in the dark scenes, where it needs to differentiate the shades of black.

Its a well accepted fact that plasma TVs generally have better contrast ratios than LCD and LED TVs. This is because plasma TVs have individual plasma cells, which automatically turn themselves off on the darker parts of the screen. LCD TVs on the other hand have a single liquid crystal and when the TV has to show the dark pictures, the CCFL back-light of the LCD only dims itself and hence the blacks aren't very convincing. On the other hand, LCD TVs powered with an LED back-light have a slight edge as the individual LEDs twist themselves into an 'off' position in the dark parts of the screen thus giving a more convincing black than the LCD TVs.

Verdict: On the contrast ratio parameter, the plasma TV clearly has the upper hand. The LED TV comes next in the race and the LCD TV comes last.

Source for the above

Contrast ratio

A television's contrast ratio represents its ability to show detail in high contrast areas of the screen, in the form of minute gradations of colour and blacks or whites. For example, a panel with a low contrast ratio will struggle to show the higher or lower extremes of an image. In layman's terms, this means detail will be lost in bright areas as well as in dark scenes. In a Blu-ray movie, for example Batman Begins, the loss of detail in dark scenes will quickly become apparent.

Most manufacturers increase the contrast capabilities of their screens by dynamically altering backlight brightness. This allows extra detail to be shown in dark scenes and can be a life-saver for a panel with a low static contrast ratio. Some manufacturers have taken their estimations of this dynamic contrast ratio to excess, rating their screens at contrast ratios of 1,000,000:1 — and even higher. While these figures demonstrate the advantages of dynamic contrast ratio alteration, they don't need to be a big factor in your buying decision.

It is generally accepted that plasma televisions have better contrast ratios than LCD panels, due to the fact that a plasma television can completely deactivate the light source for individual segments of the screen. This means sections of the screen can be completely dark while others are displaying bright colour, unlike a traditional LCD screen which has a single backlight array that can only alter brightness levels for the entire screen.

The latest LED backlight technology allows the television to individually control backlight segments. This technology allows for contrast ratios similar to those produced by plasma television panels. However, edge-lit LED televisions — usually available in an ultra-slim form factor — will have lower dynamic contrast ratios than the backlit LED models so be sure to check this detail before you purchase.

Source for the above

Plasma:

Upside:

Best black levels; very good home theater image quality in best examples; wide viewing angle.

Source for the above

Please, check many, many more links for yourself

While I agree that LEDs do do a much better job at everything compared to traditional backlit LCDs, they still don't do black levels, contrast ratios, or off angle viewing, or reduction in motion blur quite as well as a Plasma.

Each design has it's own drawbacks, however. You simply cannot have the very best of everything. There are certain compromises between all things, it is just up to the user to make an informed decision.

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We carry a few different LEDs where I work and they all have phenominal picture. I especially Like the new Sharp quadtrons colors, but all LCD and LEDs have very odd motion. It looks unnatural and it takes away from the viewing experience for me.

This site explains what I see pretty well.

http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/lcdtv/120hz-240hz-60hz.html

They also have a lot of other interesting reads on displays.

I still want A Pioneer Elite tho. The store owner has a 60" Elite and it is arguably the best display I have ever seen, hands down.

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