11 replies to this topic

[MKader17]

So I've been looking around for a summer project and something I've really wanted to start was a 5.1 HT system. So I'll start by listing some goals.

1.Cheap! Don't have much money so that means used receiver and value components
2. Versatile - I'm at home for the summer but don't know where I'll be moving so I need something that can be used in a wide range of locations. This means a small footprint which basically limits me to monitors. I also need something that works well in off axis or less than optimal situations.

Components I've chosen...

Receiver - Just purchased an older Pioneer Elite receiver from Ebay. 5.1, plenty of power and processing options.

Speakers - Zaph|Audio - ZMV5 - MCM / Vifa 5" System

Cheap, original design can be layed (sp?) over and used as center. I also chose this because the receiver I bought will crossover at the lowest 80hz (most others I looked at were 100Hz). I don't really have the budget to make something that I would be comfortable jamming at full range, so I'm willing to make the compromise. If/when I ever upgrade these could easily become a nice set of speakers for a range of situations

As far as sub stage I'm trying my best to skimp (use stuff I already have) Only problem is the largest sub I have laying around is an RLI-12 and I could run it at 8 ohms to my dayton amp (120W). I feel I may be lacking on movies (could it be enough?) What I was thinking of doing instead is finding a 15 or 18 even that can run at 4 ohms which would give me 240W from the Dayton amp.

If I need to buy an amp and subs I'd really just want to go big with a wow factor and get something like a QSC GX3 and run 2 subs stereo at 300w or 425w each

That's what I've got so far. I'm still open to changing anything (except for the receiver because I already bought it). Any suggestions?

[Deephaven]

Rli 12 or RLp 12?

120w in a large, low tuned box may do it for you depending on your normal listening levels. You could always gain match it for day to day and turn the sub down when you really play things loud. That would be the cheapest. Then you could spend more on the mains.

[MKader17]

Rli 12. One of the few that were made. So you think the 12 in a low tuned could be too much for loud levels?

I can't find specs for the rli-12. But I did take the optimal home enclosure for the 8 and 10 and assumed that the size of the box is linearly related to the cone area and I came up with a box size of 1.34 cu. ft. I just made a random guess on tuning and figure I could get away with anything from 20 - 25 hz. Not sure but I bet considering I will be giving it less than half it's power I could get away with a bigger box. All this is just speculation though, could anyone confirm it?


I really haven't found any other 2-ways I'm interested in building that aren't 3x the price. I would love to do some MTM's but someone previously informed me that MTM and center channel do not go well together...

[Deephaven]

MTM's make terrible centers.

I'd ask Mike for the specs on the Rli. 1.34 doesn't sound anywhere near large enough for a HT setup, nowhere close.

I never said it would be too much, but tried to imply that you could make it "enough" if you are truly budget limited. It would be really easy to upgrade the sub later anyways, and perhaps when you move you won't want to move the enclosure it is in anyways. If that is at all possibly the case, I'd build a big sonotube enclosure for it, but can't really recommend a size without specs on the sub, the amp, and what you might have for a HP or SS filter.

[MKader17]

Quote

T/S Parameters for the RL-i12 Dual 4 Ohm:

* Qts - 0.247
* Qes - 0.273
* Qms - 2.521
* Fs - 18.563 Hz
* Re - 5.69 Ohms
* Ls - 4.788 mH
* Lp - 5.461 mH
* Rp - 9.682 Ohms
* Vas - 166.5 L
* Sd - 0.0457 m^2
* Mms - 149.3 g
* Cms - 492.2 m/N
* Bl - 19.03 T*m
* Sensitivity - 87.73 dB
* Xmax - 19 mm

Info for Dayton Amp

I probably do have room for one off beside my TV. I was also thinking if the sub setup is something I have to rebuild later I would be okay with it. The only problem is my amp is a plate amp, which is kind of lame for a sonotube. I could house it in it's own enclosure

What about getting an MJ18 for the job? Their cheap and have a lot of cone area

Best places to find a sonotube?

[sandt38]

Lowes or Home Depot will have sonotubes. They are concrete forms.

[MKader17]

Checked both places. They only had up to 12" and they were the thin wall kind.

There's a place in another town that probably sells the bigger ones and I need to go out there to see a friend anyways so i'll swing by there, hopefully today.

[Deephaven]

Look up concrete supply places and you'll find the good ones, usually in some industrial park.

An MJ would do a better job even with that amp.

You can build a little box that attaches to the tube that could stay hidden in the corner.

[MKader17]

Found a place that will sell them too me in whatever size with whatever length. The mj-18 I was looking at buying got sold. Found another one on car audio classifieds I think, but they won't let me post or send PM's to the guy for some reason so I dunno if I can get in touch with him. If I don't find a 15 or 18 in the sub 200 range (4 ohms) I'll just run with the rli-12

I do also have an orphan 8 that runs 6 ohm (so something like 205 W from the Dayton at 6). Is there any chance I chance can run it as a sub BIB style? I could make room to lay down an 8 inch BIB behind the "entertainment center". That would be a wow factor

Keep in mind the current room is 24'x15'x9.5' with a 3.5ft wide stair way on the shorter side. The ceiling has a 5'x 24' flat spot and slopes to 5' on each side.... gah that's an odd shaped room to describe

[Deephaven]

You could run the 8, but it will puke on movies. Just not enough cone area to play anything low.

btw, with the power you have you will be running the 18 bib style.

[MKader17]

Wanted to update the thread.



My receiver came in and I spent today playing with it.

Hooked it up to the BIBs and the MAW-10 (1 cu ft. sealed). I plugged in Pearl Harbor through my PS2 and hooked up the optical cable.

First off, it seems like the amp does not put out near the power that it claims (100W @ 8). It will definitely get loud if you crank it but the Volume goes from -80 to +12 and you can't hear anything until about -40 and then it's getting loud at -3. (On Music)

Maybe it's something I'm not used to as far as the volume control. From the Adcom Pre-amp I have the signal split to my amp and subwoofer amp. The amp (Rated 60W @ 8) is set at half gains and the pre-amp volume knob is usually at about half when it starts getting loud... (On Music)

Either way I did some "critical" listening during the big attack scene. The system seems to lack in the top octaves. Everything sounded good but seemed lack a bit of pop when shells were flying and people are yelling. I figured this is because my lack of tweeter in the system.

Also the sub definitely seemed lacking. The frequencies were there and added some rumble but the impact of things crashing didn't feel like much of an impact. Of course this is something I expected and have already started looking to replace.

Just for reference I ran the same scene through my parents HT setup (Technics Receiver, Apex DVD player connected via L/R RCA's, Bose speakers all the way around with a cheap powered woofer (The mains also have some little sub they run through as well)). It did much better in the top octaves but still pretty much lacks the same bottom end response (Keep in mind this is a full 5.1 setup)

Just keeping all this for future reference

[Aaron Clinton]